Date sent: Tue, 13 Apr 2004 15:54:24 -0700 (PDT)

The parts Roger has written are in italics. The parts Toby has written are in normal text.

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Toby: > Doesn't this seem like a huge undertaking?

> Why do this (the universe) for no reason?

Roger: As an exister inside of the universe, I can't definitively answer the "why" question, even if it is a small, earth-only universe. This is covered in part by Goedel's theories dealing with the limits of formal logic.

I don't know Goedel, but the formal logic of Acquinas and Aristotle don't give first cause no purpose, that is illogical, what does Goedel say? Plus, this again is our "faith". That there is no purpose can't be proved either way, but logic is against you. nothing is created without purpose

Given the size of the universe as we know it today, I can't even hope to answer. Why the universe exists is beyond my ability to experience, so I don't have to deal with that question. If I am forced to deal with that question: the answer is the universe is purposeless.

> What organisms have souls? only humans

> Where does it go when the body dies? to heaven

> What part of the body interacts with the soul? the mind

(This is a curiousity question. I was going to try to make a point with this collection, but I won't bother. And if you don't know, it's not covered in scripture, that's fine.) Since only humans have souls, is there anything in Heaven besides The Trinity, angels and human souls? Any heavenly equivalent of plants or animals?

sure, but what i don't know

>> Don't confuse the evolution process with the living processes. Life processes can learn, and do become more efficent, lots more efficent.

> Then life has a purpose, was our current state just randomly arrived at?

The purpose of life is to produce more life. That is not random. Those organisms that are best at propigating are those which survive. Life will use all the tools it can get a hold of to promote that purpose, including intelligence and conciousness.

says who? the reproductive urge? that's materialistic urge, not a purposeful one, it is just hardwired. Life as in, many tribes of old and now, use all their intel to eliminate whole other tribes -- that doesn't promote life.

(From my point of view, this life purpose models the Catholic church's evolution through various heresies. The purpose of the Catholic church organization we know today was to survive heresy. The Church we experience is the "wing" of each heresy that survived.)

No, the catholic church's objective is not to survive heresy it is to pass along the gospel. Heresies are merely side-shows, things that need clarification.

>> The First Cause is hidden to humans...

> facinating, but IS it your world vew?

> are you glad you were born?

First Cause is not in my world view.

I really need clarification here, describe a world without first cause. How did we get here. I can accept that you don't know and don't care, but not that you think that creation needed no creator. this is facinating idea, tell me more

Yes, I'm glad I was born, and I feel I've been extrodinarily lucky! I have a conciousness that resides in a well-off American human of the 20/21st century. In my world view my conciousness (soul, if you like) could have been in any living organism, clear down to a bacteria or fungi.

Luck, not predestination?

(Would my soul have been happy to live in a bacteria or fungi? Probably, because it wouldn't have known any better.)

The parts Roger has written are in italics. The parts Toby has written are in normal text.

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