Date sent: Wed, 31 Mar 2004 16:13:25 -0800 (PST)

The parts Roger has written are in italics. The parts Toby has written are in normal text.

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Toby: I recommend you see it. it is very moving, maybe it will help you see how much God (if jesus was who he said he was) loves you. It is a good documentary on the Roman art of torture.

firstly, lets address the out of time thing -- the three-in-one thing means he was fully divine and fully human -- he felt what we feel. in retro he probably, as we all do, said glad that is over, but as he underwent the torture the pain was immediate and real. your view was a heresy that had to be put down two times (first and most prominantly the Arian heresy) otherwise, as you postulate the excercise was smoke and mirrors. No pain no gain you might say. Also, Jesus felt all human emotions (laughter, tears, sorrow, helplessness, etc.) If he didn't suffer, then there would be no atonement, sin required a price, smoke and mirrors is not a price it's a gimmick.

See the movie and ask yourself -- would i agree in advance to take that torture so save .... who? my child? y mother? my friend? that guy you can't stand who did this or that and really embarassed, hurt, whatever me? (your "enemies")

Jesus did it for some people I wouldn't spit upon?

try that for starters

Roger: I haven't seen it yet. At first I was curious and likely to have seen it, but, frankly, I'm put off by movies that center on either torture or sickness. I don't enjoy watching people suffer in movies, I enjoy watching people being clever. For instance, I found most of Braveheart entertaining, but the last part added nothing to that movie.

So, lately I haven't been planning on it.

--Roger

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The parts Roger has written are in italics. The parts Toby has written are in normal text.

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