Date sent: Wed, 21 Apr 2004 09:29:43 -0700 (PDT)

The parts Roger has written are in italics. The parts Toby has written are in normal text.

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Toby: > your froggie philosoph...

Roger: Mr. Froggy isn't wrong. God simply has to be "big enough" to be both Creator and Universe... but that's pretty big.

but that is impossible, the created thing can't be as great as the creator, can it?

> Aristotle...

Because of the layer concept (and the conclusion from that that the "real world" was totally logical, and not the one we lived in.), Aristotle and his followers looked down on experimentation. They ridiculed the Pragmatists in Ancient Greek world which had a further stifling effect on experimenting.

> It was Newton, and his Three Laws ...

Yeah, he was definately a "glory of God" explainer.

is this tongue in cheek? i thought he was even a little wacko o biblical literalism, including the prophetic books?

i think you would agree with woody allen... who referred to god as an underachiever.

or David Hume (the Scott Philospher) and more recent Yale philosopher, Norwood Hanson, the essence of which is ...

I am not hostile to the idea of God, but what i need is for there to be a day of total cloud cover as walk down the main street of Seoul or SLC and have those clouds split with a piercing trumpet sound and as everyone looks up a Michangeloid-Zeus looks down and points at me and says (in english and korean) "I have had quite enough of your too-clever-logic-chopping and word games in matters of theology. Be assured, Mr. Roger White, son of Roger White, that i do most certainly exisit."

enough of these miracles that might be explained and usually occur under murky problematic circumstances

would a pubic revelation like that do it for you? (this is not a trick question)

Yeah, it would. I'm a pragmatist. If I see him, I'm happy to add him to my world view.

it is interesting to note that a person asked Napolean or another great leader how he could start a religion (so he could have religious following) that would spread across the world -- the great world leader replied, "Get your self killed and rise from the dead, that will do it every time." true story only brought in for humor here.

more later

Sadly not... Instead...

-- The End --

I hope you, dear reader, have found this collection of thoughts interesting. Toby and I covered a lot of ground in this discussion, and, in my opinion, came up with some interesting points of view and interesting insights.

I hope you have enjoyed them, too. If you have, send us an e-mail.

--Roger White

The parts Roger has written are in italics. The parts Toby has written are in normal text.

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